Series 2 Episode 22 Transcript

Series 2 Episode 22

Paulina López Noriega ‘Diversity & Inclusion’ transcript powered by Sonix—easily convert your audio to text with Sonix.

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David:
On today’s episode…

Paulina:
I think that we have a lot of work to do in Latin America. We are just starting. The gender pay gap is enormous.

Paulina:
You know, I have been working from home for four years now. So for me, it was not like a very shocking thing.

Paulina:
So it’s super cool. I love my work! I love what I do now.

David:
I’m David Bevis, and you’re listening to Mexico Over the Wall, a podcast about Mexico from the other side. My next guest is from Mexico City and lives in Mexico City, which means this is the first time I’ve interviewed someone who isn’t an expat on this podcast. I’ll let her introduce herself.

Paulina:
My name is Paulina López Noriega, and I am in charge of diversity and inclusion for Dell in Latin America.

David:
Ok, and what kind of things does that involve you doing?

Paulina:
Ok, well, we have a lot of things that relate to diversity and inclusion, and some of them are the ERGs. Those are the employee resource groups. And we have 13 worldwide and in Latin America, we have representation of nine of them. And these ERGs are groups of people that get together with the same interests and then they start doing things for the company. And the interesting part is that we have so much difference of people and points of view that that enriches a lot of the things that we do with the ERGs.

Paulina:
For example, we have Women in Action, we have Planet, we have True Ability that is for people with disabilities, we have Conexus that is for remote workers. And that’s been a huge thing that we have had now with the Covid pandemic. We have another one that is called Interfaith that mixes different faiths. That is not usual to see that in the workspace. We have GenNext for the first generation of people that is coming to work for the first time. And right now here then we have five different generations working at the same time. And well, so on and on and so on. We have nine here represented in Latin America and we have a total of 13. So we do that and many, many more things through the ERGs.

Paulina:
And for example, we also have a training that the chief diversity officer at Dell, he calls that training a foundational learning. It’s like the basics. So we started doing this training four years ago. And it’s addressed to the people that work for Dell. And the objective is that you start noticing or you make conscious, you detect all the biases that you bring to the table, and that really affect a professional or a business setting.

David:
Right.

Paulina:
So we do that. We started with the first line of executives and then we started to cascade down. We trained, I would say, more than ninety five percent of the managers, I mean, people that have direct reports. And now we are going to be doing that with every single employee at Dell, I mean, worldwide. So that’s a very cool project. I like it very much. And we have that, and it has different modules. And it’s a training that takes four hours. And it goes really fast. Like, you can’t believe how fast it goes. It’s really cool.

Paulina:
So, we have a lot of things related to diversity and inclusion, because that is not the same. I mean, diversity cannot exist without inclusion. It’s related. And we also have different programs that not all of them apply to Latin America, but we are trying to get them here. And diversity and inclusion for Dell are part of our social impact program. And then you have other pillars that play a role there.

David:
Ok, and how prepared do you think Mexico and Latin America are for that kind of approach?

Paulina:
You know, it’s a very good question. I think that it depends on the company. I mean, for example, we have companies that have been reaching out to us with a lot of questions because we are we are being like first responders, if I can say it like that. If I can put it like that, we are opening the path for other companies and they are starting to pay attention a lot to what companies like Dell or other big companies that are global. What are they doing? And for example, I have been in touch with different companies trying to learn from Dell.

Paulina:
But how is it in Latin America and in Mexico? I think that we are just starting and I was talking to someone a few days ago saying, this is a very new position. And most of the diversity and inclusion positions usually report into human resources. But, for example, at Dell, we report to sales because one of the things that Michael Dell says is that diversity and inclusion are a business imperative, not only something like it’s nice to have. It’s like what we are not only what we do, it’s like our DNA.

Paulina:
So, I think that we have a lot of work to do in Latin America. We are just starting. The gender pay gap is enormous and there’s a lot of things to do with any of any of the ERG-related topics that I told you about. I mean, people with disabilities, women, gender, pride, the planet, et cetera. So, I think that it’s a very inspiring future because we have a lot to do. But people are paying attention more and more. I mean, media and our customers. There are customers that are asking for… When they are evaluating different providers, they are taking into account the things that are related to diversity and to corporate social responsibility and environment. And that can tell you a lot.

David:
Yeah. And how has the current situation affected what you do?

Paulina:
You know, I have been working from home for four years now. So for me. It was not like a very shocking thing. For many people, not only at Dell, but in general, it’s been hard. Not only because you have to learn to work from home. But I mean, not at Dell obviously, but many companies have problems to get their employees to work remotely because they didn’t have the infrastructure for doing that. But for me, thank God it was OK. My husband works here at home as well. Like for many years, less than the four years that I have, but we didn’t have that curve, the learning curve of, you know, learning to work from home and then work with your partner. So we are kind of lucky ones.

David:
Yeah. One of my interviewees who worked from home before said that her house had been invaded.

Paulina:
Yeah. Yeah, totally. I am hiding in my bedroom between my office and my kids that are outside. And I had to lock the door. Because if not, they are going to enter like that, just like, “Hey mom!” And this is something that it’s getting pretty common when you are on a conference call, everybody at home is going to at some point cross through the video cam or whatever. Or you can hear dogs barking and cats meowing.

Paulina:
And that is very funny, and it’s the new normal. And people knows that we have the kids 24/7, and they have needs. And I don’t know if you remember that video of of this guy that was interviewed with the BBC? That was a huge thing. And now it’s like so natural to see even in the news, you can see those images like very often.

David:
Uh huh. And nobody bats an eye.

Paulina:
Yeah, exactly. Because, for example, I have a closed space here. But if you live in a loft, I mean, you cannot help it. And smaller kids are more demanding than the big kids that can be a little more independent. So, yeah, it’s kind of interesting.

David:
Uh huh. How was homeschooling for you?

Paulina:
I wouldn’t call it home schooling, but remote learning or something like that. I mean, it was like they had to adapt with what they had.

David:
Mm hmm.

Paulina:
And it was so sudden and for example, some of the the teachers at my my children’s school, they didn’t have, for example, Internet bandwidth that was enough for having these virtual lessons. At first, it was kind of hard and there was a lot of confusion and they sent a link that wouldn’t work. But at the end, I mean, I have two kids and the little one is eight. He turned nine during the pandemic and he didn’t know how to use the copy machine and how to scan. And then, I would say, like the second week he would go, do the homework and scan it, rename it and send it himself, everything by himself. So, they got very responsible. And they learned a lot. I mean, not all the schools did the same amount of work or some they would have only one hour per day or they would have from eight to one p.m. And ours? They had like scattered… The lessons were not one on top of the other. They have time for breaks and everything and they did it well. I was I was happy with that.

David:
Yeah. Yeah. Ok, what things do you like about Mexico?

Paulina:
I would say that people are very caring. They are very open. They will always welcome anyone local or, you know, visitors or people that just moved to live here. We are very friendly and that is like like Mexican people.

Paulina:
What do I like about Mexico? Of course, the food is so good. It’s very good. The music, the nature. It’s kind of unfortunate that you cannot travel too much right now. But I would say that you have everything. If you come to Mexico, you can have like the foodies touristic adventure or you can go to ruins or you can go to museums. Go figure that Mexico is the country with most museums in the world.

Paulina:
So, it’s very cool and you always have something different to do. And if you want to stay home, you can stay home and invite people and you are always going to have a good time. We are very friendly. We are very… I would say that we are happy people in general. And we are very loyal with our families. We are kind of like Italian families that we are very, very close and we depend on each other and we count on each other. And I think that that is something that I like very much about my country. People are really, really caring.

David:
Mm hmm. Is there anything that you would change about Mexico?

Paulina:
I am not going to go into politics, but I would say that right now it’s kind of frustrating that you cannot just take your car and go on a trip because you can… And it’s not something that is going to happen, but it’s kind of risky. You know, it’s a risky move. And a few years ago, two decades ago, I used to travel all over Mexico by car and nothing happened. But right now, people are, you know, the narco and it’s kind of uncertain. You never know if you are going to be lucky or not. But I would say that that is a bummer right now.

David:
OK, what advice would you give to somebody who’s thinking of coming to Mexico?

Paulina:
I would say that they should plan ahead a little bit. You have totally different profiles of a traveller here in Mexico, and I mentioned that before. If you are more interested in the cultural… If you are more like a cultural visitor, you can plan ahead and visit several museums. There’s some really cool tours in the historic district or downtown that you can take or you can just pick a different beach and you can go and surf or you can have like a super chic destination or the super hippy one that you are going to be having a lot of fun, either of those that you pick. You have so many different things and I think that it will depend on what you want to do, but if you can plan ahead, it’s better.

Paulina:
And another thing regarding safety is that you have to use your common sense. And when I am telling you, plan ahead, you have to to get to know where you are going to be, so you have no surprises. Like, for example, you don’t want to be caught in a kind of bad neighbourhood at night. But you can pick a good neighbourhood and have dinner there and take a walk and have a super good experience. Use your common sense.

Paulina:
And I think that that applies to everywhere. Just don’t come and be flashy about things that you own and bring a big camera. Just be alert. Just be alert and be open to try new things. I would say not only from a food perspective, but for everything. And Mexico is going to give you a very good experience.

Paulina:
I really love travelling in Mexico and receiving friends and show my country to them. And I think that when you receive someone from abroad, you can bring them to a different experience, from the people that live here. It it leaves you or it leaves the person that you’re hosting with a totally different experience.

Paulina:
And every single time that I receive visitors, I will bring them to know museums. And one of my favourite spots in the city, for me, that I really like to show off about is Coyoacán, for example, or San Angel. And I will bring them to actually sit in a market and it’s not like street food, but kind of. And they just love it. And I really like to show that Mexico to the visitors.

David:
Yeah. It’s not something you’d do if you went on your own, I think.

Paulina:
Exactly.

David:
Yeah. Yeah, it is… I live quite near to Coyoacán, so it’s…

Paulina:
Yeah? I love it, I love it, love it. And it’s usually so crowded that we don’t go very much but every single time that I have visitors I will bring them to Coyoacán. And I have discovered this new tour that I can bring them to Museo Dolores Olmedo, that is really close to Xochimilco. So, we visit Museo Dolores Olmedo that is beautiful. Then, a few hours in Xochimilco, and then we go to Coyoacán. So, it’s like a full three in one day.

David:
Yeah.

Paulina:
So, it’s super cool. It’s really cool. I love it.

David:
Totally. Um, have you got any new projects coming up or anything else that you’d like to recommend?

Paulina:
Well, you know, work is always changing. I call working at Dell… It’s like dog years. The pace is really fast. And this is training that I was telling you about, it used to be face to face. And now we had to turn that into a virtual experience. So that is coming, and it’s going to be really cool to see how it goes.

David:
Have you found much kind of resistance to this from the employees or are they kind of accepting of it?

Paulina:
No, no, no, no. They love it. They love it. And right now, I mean, this training, it’s about… It goes in different topics. So, diversity, inclusion, then you have bias. You have microaggressions, you have privilege. And now we are adding an anti-racism module as well.

Paulina:
So, no, it’s… I wouldn’t say life changing, but it hits you hard and you start realising how many things you were doing without noticing. For example, privilege. I mean, always… First you you get trained and you can become a facilitator. And when you are a facilitator, you discover a lot of things. Even myself, that I have been doing this training. I have done it in Mexico, in Colombia, in Peru and in Chile and outside and inside the company. And every single one is different.

Paulina:
For example, when I was in Colombia, we have this… We call it partnership work and we had this exercise where you have to… You are in one side of the room and you have to walk and turn around and see who is in the other side of the room when we ask a question. And one of those questions was, “Do you consider yourself introverted?” And when I was in Colombia, I said, like, no one is going to walk. And more than half of the people walked to the other side of the room. And I was like, I had a huge bias on that, by considering every single Colombian is a happy person that loves to dance. And it was not about that, you know. And it’s so amazing.

Paulina:
And people just are noticing privileges. In the UK, you can probably walk at any time during the night and you don’t have to have your keys in your hand being prepared for anything that could jump from, you know, any corner. So, you start getting to know your your privileges.

Paulina:
For example, we have a team member that is a transgender woman here. And when you are at the office, you just feel like you need to go to the loo, as you call it, and you just step away from your desk, go to the restroom and come back, and at some point she couldn’t go to either bathroom when she was transitioning. So, that is a huge privilege that you never realise. What is the first thing that you do when you arrive, when you are on vacation and you arrive at a new hotel? What do you do? The first thing when you get into the room, what do you do?

David:
I don’t know. I guess you unpack, go to the loo, freshen up.

Paulina:
Well, I the first thing that I do and many, many people do the same thing. I open the curtain and see the view.

David:
Right.

Paulina:
So, there are people that the first thing that they have to do is to check if their wheelchair is going to fit in the restroom or in the shower. And you start realising how many privileges you have. And those are questions that we do in the section of privileges. Like, do you have to think if wearing your favourite dress is going to talk about your sexual availability?

David:
Mm hmm.

Paulina:
Things like that that you just don’t realise unless someone tells you, “You have a huge privilege and you have to own it, you know?” So, it’s super interesting. So, I have never found resistance, I mean, most of the people want to become a facilitator after they have this training.

David:
Mm hmm.

Paulina:
And right now that we have to have a pause because we were not prepared to have more than one hundred thousand people to go on this training, virtually, they have been reaching out to me, like, “Hey, how is this going? I want to restart. I want to give some sessions.”

Paulina:
And there is a lot of interest, and not only from Dell, but from customers, that when we talk about this, they they find it really interesting and they want us to teach them how to do it. And I just had a session with a friend of mine that works for for a huge entertainment company to talk about how ERGs can be brought to the media messaging, for example.

Paulina:
So you are telling stories. I am just telling you stories. And, for example, this True Ability ERG that we have, it started in Brazil because one of our colleagues there had an accident and she lost a leg. And when she returned back to the office, she started noticing that she couldn’t do her work in a proper way, because there were no conditions for that.

David:
Yeah.

Paulina:
So, you can affect the whole company because that ERG now is present in almost every single office in Dell. And it was just because one individual noticed that we were not prepared for that.

David:
Mm hmm.

Paulina:
So, it’s super cool. I love my work! I love what I do now.

David:
So, I was talking there to Paulina López Noriega, who lives in Mexico City. Over the course of this series, I’m going to be interviewing people from all over the place about their experiences of living in Mexico. If you live in Mexico and would like to take part, please get in touch by writing to feedback@mexicooverthewall.com or you can send us a voice message via Facebook Messenger at mexicoovertheworld.com/messenger.

David:
Please support the podcast by giving us a review, which you can do via mexicooverthewall.com/apple for Apple podcasts if you have an iOS device or iTunes or you can give us a review on Stitcher by going to mexicooverthewall/stitcher.

David:
You can also support us with hard cash by sponsoring us on Patreon. One of the benefits of sponsorship is that you can get extended versions of these interviews. Go to patreon.com/mexicooverthewall for more details.

David:
That’s it for this episode. Hope you liked it. See you next time.